Pre-Aging your Fine Grain Developer

Film Photography & Darkroom discussion

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KennyE
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:49 am
Location: Waterford, Michigan USA

Pre-Aging your Fine Grain Developer

Postby KennyE » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:04 am

One of the most costly things in the Photographic Hobby, is the waste of film developing solutions. Most of it is used, yet the remainder is toss out. This is because most photographers use the one shot method and hope for the very best results.

Thou this method has its merits, it can become costly, and cause you to lose the very thing that you are after. Constant outstanding negative development.

What can solve some of the problems is simple. "Pre-age Fine Grain Developer"

Listed below are two photographic film developers. One is a modified D-23 with Sodium Metaborate. The other is a super fine grain developer, that uses Color Developer #3, instead of Para-Phenylenediamine. In many ways it is better; where by it is less toxic and non staining. Even with the Pyro. As well, the second developer is close to being a "panthermic developer", it can be used at temperatures of 82 degrees.

These are two tank developing formulas. And this is how you use them.

After making any one of the developers, you will have 1 full liter of stock solution. You will need two bottles to keep them in. I use one 32 oz. and one 8 oz. water bottles.

You will fill the 8 oz. with your stock solution, nearly to the top. And put the cap on tight. Next you will add water to the remainder of the stock solution, to bring it up to 32 oz. Now we will "Pre-Age" the developer. The method I use, will enable you to save film, yet still obtain the aging effect to the developer.

Obtain one 8x10 sheet of #2 grade enlarging paper, and cut it up into 8 in long x 1/2 in wide strips. Pile those strips on top of each other and tie them together with a piece of thread. Bend the paper strips in half and place them in your 32 oz. of stock/ working solution for 30 minutes.

KODAK D-23/ w Kodalk
Low to medium contrast film developer

Water, 125F/52C 750 ml
Metol 7.5 g
Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 90 g
Sodium Metaborate 2 g
Water to make 1L
Mixing instructions: Add chemicals in specified sequence.
Dilution: Use undiluted
Starting point development time: 12 mins (tank), 10 mins (tray)
Note: In contrast to the modified D-23 formula above. The D-23/w Kodalk formula reduces the Sodium Sulfite by 10 grams to reduce contrast. Adding a Balance Alkali increases the pH, therefore reducing the development times.

Glycin, CD3, Pyro Developer # 1 Very Fine Grain

Chemical Amount Units
Water (125°F/52°C) 750 ml
Sodium sulfite (dessic) 70.0 g
Pyro 5.0 g
Color Developer 3 4.0 g
Borax 4.0 g
Glycin 7.0 g
Cold water to make 1000 ml

After 30 minutes, remove the paper, pour it into the 32 oz. bottle and you will have aged developer. Use the 8 oz bottle of solution to replenish your 32 oz solution. Once you developed your film, pour your used developer back into your 32 oz. and use it over again. It is good for about 15 to 18 rolls of film.

Thank You


KennyE
Last edited by KennyE on Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.


Keith Tapscott.
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:58 am
Location: Plymouth, England.

Re: Pre-Aging your Fine Grain Developer

Postby Keith Tapscott. » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:41 am

Surely it would be better to simply make a stock developer and a suitable replenisher such as D-76/ID-11?

DEVELOPER
750ml of water at around 50*C

Metol 2g
Sodium sulphite, anhydrous 100g
Hydroquinone 5g
Borax, decahydrate 2g
Water to make 1 litre of stock solution.

Use without further dilution and top it up with the replenisher. (See below)

REPLENISHER
750ml of water at around 50*C

Metol 3g
Sodium sulphite, anhydrous 100g
Hydroquinone 7.5g
Borax, decahydrate 20g
Water to make 1 litre of stock solution.

A pinch of potassium bromide can be added to the developer to help season it at around 0.25g to 0.5g per litre of stock which saves messing around with strips of photographic paper.

I chose this formula because it is a world standard process and there are developing times for nearly all B&W films. It still provides IMHO, an excellent balance of speed, grain, sharpness and tonal gradation with correctly exposed and processed films.

Keith Tapscott.
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:58 am
Location: Plymouth, England.

Re: Pre-Aging your Fine Grain Developer

Postby Keith Tapscott. » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:24 am

KennyE wrote:
KODAK D-23/ w Kodalk
Low to medium contrast film developer

Water, 125F/52C 750 ml
Metol 7.5 g
Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 90 g
Sodium Metaborate 2 g
Water to make 1L
Mixing instructions: Add chemicals in specified sequence.
Dilution: Use undiluted
Starting point development time: 12 mins (tank), 10 mins (tray)
Note: In contrast to the modified D-23 formula above. The D-23/w Kodalk formula reduces the Sodium Sulfite by 10 grams to improve contrast.

Adding a Balance Alkali increases the pH, therefore increasing the development times.

Thank You


KennyE
I'm not sure how reducing the sulphite in D-23 by 10 grams improves contrast. Do you mean it increases or reduces contrast?

Making a developer more alkaline usually means that the developing times need to be reduced and lowering the pH means that the developing times usually need to be increased.

For example, the standard D-23 times will be significantly shorter than those required for D-25 which is literally the D-23 formula with metabisulphite added to it.

KennyE
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:49 am
Location: Waterford, Michigan USA

Re: Pre-Aging your Fine Grain Developer

Postby KennyE » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:49 pm

Thank You Keith for catching my type-o's. And I know that we all make them from time to time. Because D25, calls for 15 grams of Sodium Bisulfite, I think. I could be wrong.

Thank You

KennyE
Last edited by KennyE on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

KennyE
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:49 am
Location: Waterford, Michigan USA

Re: Pre-Aging your Fine Grain Developer

Postby KennyE » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:03 pm

Keith, I was never a fan of D-76 or ID-11. I felt then, and still today, that their overall imaging is too soft and not sharp enough for my liking.

I chose Rodinal over those two developers.

Also, a single reducer like metol is somewhat easy to get in most countries. And if hydroquinone is the only reducer available in ones area, making PaRodinal and adding a small amount of hydroquinone, will do wonders.

But also, what is more simpler than using a sheet of enlarging paper to pre-age ones stock solution, would it not be cheaper than purchasing a pack of replenisher?

What is your take on it?

Thank You

KennyE

KennyE
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:49 am
Location: Waterford, Michigan USA

Re: Pre-Aging your Fine Grain Developer

Postby KennyE » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:12 pm

Keith you are fully correct when you stated that D-76 and ID-11 are world standards. And many companies copied or made similar formulas.

But I need to inform you about something that is happening in and around my area.

There is only two camera shops in my area that sells photographic chemicals. One of them is only 1.2 miles from my home. The other is 28 miles. And I live in the Detroit Metro Area. No where else, can you purchase photographic chemicals, in the whole of the Detroit Metro Area. And one of those stores is planning to stop selling chemical all together.

If it was not for the internet, many of us here, would be hard pressed.

So, what I am saying, is that the standard, will no longer be the standard soon. We must adjust to other measures. The one reducer developer, may be coming back. To when, in the beginning there was only Pyro. It may be only Metol or 4-aminphenol. And the only reason that I mention 4-aminophenol, is that you can find it in most hair dyes.

That is why I do so many experiments with Tylenol and making PaRodinal. Because I know that nothing stays the same. Nothing.

What is your take on it?

Thank You

KennyE

Keith Tapscott.
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:58 am
Location: Plymouth, England.

Re: Pre-Aging your Fine Grain Developer

Postby Keith Tapscott. » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:21 am

Kenny, yes. D-25 is simply D-23 with the addition of 15 grams of sodium bisulphite or metabisulphite per litre of stock. I don't know if they are the same component or different.

You recommended that the developer formulas you gave to be reused. I would have thought that you might as well go all the way and make a proper replenisher if you use them at stock strength.

I personally prefer the "one-shot" use of developers, but that's just me. Rodinal is very popular and works OK with slow and medium speed films, but I am not too keen on Rodinal with films in the ISO 400 speed groups.
My preference is for D-76 diluted 1+1 for them, although I must point out that I prefer the look of classic type films like Tri-X and HP5 Plus over T-MAX and Delta types.

D-23 is the simplest developer of the formulas you gave and the one I would choose. Again, I prefer D-76 or else I would choose one of the P.Q. Borax variants like ID-68.

D-76/ID-11 is the developer that all others are measured by, so if another developer gives higher speed, it is usually at the cost of coarser grain and a developer which gives finer grain is usually at the expense of a lower effective speed yield.

All developers are a compromise. The magic developer that gives the highest film speed, maximum sharpness and the finest grain possible has yet to be formulated. I gave up chasing the proverbial magic miracle potion.

foolscape
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Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Re: Pre-Aging your Fine Grain Developer

Postby foolscape » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:03 pm

I'm about to give Edwal 12 a try (made by Photographers' Formulary). I've heard that this developer also needs a little ripening. Is that true?

KennyE
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:49 am
Location: Waterford, Michigan USA

Re: Pre-Aging your Fine Grain Developer

Postby KennyE » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:29 pm

Thou Edwal 12 is a good developer, Photographer Formula does produce their version of Harvey 777, which is truly Germain's Fine Grain developer. And from what I seen of it, it is a great deal better that the Edwal 12.

But then again..., that is my take on the two developers.

Thank You

KennyE

Fotohuis
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Re: Pre-Aging your Fine Grain Developer

Postby Fotohuis » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:41 pm

You can use Windisch W665, based on ortho- Phenylene Diamine, less toxid and less staining compared to para- Phenylene Diamine (777 and Edwal-12) and yes, these developers needs rippening which you can do with 1/2 old expired film.
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"

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