Foma and Forte: Relics of Cold War Eastern inferiority?

Film Photography & Darkroom discussion

Moderator: Keith Tapscott.

PeanutHorst
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:48 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Postby PeanutHorst » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:31 am

*Ornello is eaten by a grue!

Keith, you believe that just because I am relatively young, that I have not the technical competence to use vintage equipment?

I am actually quite comfortable with the Linhof Technika, it is truly a brilliant piece of engineering... You can get your hands on it over my cold cadaver! Also, the bulb flash I use it with is truly remarkable.

I'm lucky to have gotten my grubby little hands (soiled from too much PQ developer and ammonium thiosulphate fixer ;)) on such beautiful cameras - incidentally, I have to add to the list now, a Walzflex II and a Zorki 6 - both perfectly functioning apart from the sync on the Zorki.

Most of the film I have shot in black and white is antique stock, in fact, in my Ricoh at the moment I have loaded some Kodak Panatomic-X (32 ASA) - any idea how old that is? I doubt there's even data for it on the Massive Dev Chart (TM)!

Recently I've been shooting FP4+ and HP5+ - I must say i prefer HP3 @ 320 ASA and Agfapan APX 100. Plus-X is always nice too.

Soon, I will have a webpage showcasing my cameras... I will of course link back to here :D
My cameras:

Ricoh XR-1s, 55mm SMC Pentax lense
Asahi Pentax KX, Astron 28-70mm lense
Rolleiflex 3.5C
Zeiss Ikonta
Linhoff large-format camera


Keith Tapscott.
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:58 am
Location: Plymouth, England.

Postby Keith Tapscott. » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:45 am

PeanutHorst wrote:*Ornello is eaten by a grue!

I am actually quite comfortable with the Linhof Technika, it is truly a brilliant piece of engineering... You can get your hands on it over my cold cadaver! Also, the bulb flash I use it with is truly remarkable. :D
Damn! Still it was worth a try. :lol:
Cheers.

PeanutHorst
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:48 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Postby PeanutHorst » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:39 am

My thoughts precisely. You can't blame a guy for trying.

Want a (clone of a) Leica rangefinder instead? (it's a very very good clone) :P

Incidentally, where's the dev data on the chart for Kodak Panatomic-X ?
My cameras:

Ricoh XR-1s, 55mm SMC Pentax lense
Asahi Pentax KX, Astron 28-70mm lense
Rolleiflex 3.5C
Zeiss Ikonta
Linhoff large-format camera

Digitaltruth
Site Admin
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:24 pm
Contact:

Postby Digitaltruth » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:40 am

Panatomic-X was discontinued before the chart was in its present form, so there are no data tables. If you need times for Panatomic-X, I have some, so just let me know.
--Jon Mided

Digitaltruth Photo
http://www.digitaltruth.com

pentaxpete
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:19 am
Location: BRENTWOOD,Essex,(UK)

Postby pentaxpete » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:55 am

PeanutHorst: I have just defrosted my 'photographic fridge' : in there are two packs of 10 rolls ORWO NP22 120 size dated 04-1993 ( a good vintage ) If I had a web-cam I could hold them up and show you thus making you very envious !!!!! Pity not enough people would buy the ORWO films when they were freely available ! I used to get 100 roll lots and resell them at cost to my photography evening class students, then develop their films in PH35 formula and encourage them to do prints on the practical evenings. ORWO was one half the cost of the usual films. They did a colour slide emulsion too but it was quite contrasty and yellow except for one 100 cassette lot I got for resale that the suppliers must have sold me before it had 'matured' as it had a horrendous blue cast and was at least double the speed on the box with the result people's shots were over-exposed and all light blue ! The ORWO NP27 400 ASA was a bit soft on contrast and not as sharp as say Tr-X but it was CHEAP!!!!!! The NP15 was good; I found instead of 25ASA it should be 32ASA. I have just last week found my last cassette of it and used some with a friend from the camera club to encourage him to do some 'still-lifes' of things in his bungalow and developed it in Rodinal 1+50 for 9 mins at 20oC and the negs came out well and he got some good prints. I cut the film so I have a few frames left !!!! Regards (we all feel sorry about your famous 'Crock Man' and his family here in the UK ) Peter.
Got COMPUTERISED and 'slightly Digitised Pentax K10D' but FILM STILL RULES !

PeanutHorst
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:48 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Postby PeanutHorst » Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:31 am

Oooh, Jon, I DO need times for Panatomic-X in the following:

Ilford Universal, 1:29
Kodak DK-50 (Stock or 1:1)

pentaxpete:

you're REALLY evil.

(God, i need to shoot some low-speed 120 panchromatic, i'm ITCHING to do so)
I wish i had Panatomic-X or Plus-X in 120 form... but i guess it's never to be now... I exhausted my reserves of Verichrome about a month ago now :(
My cameras:

Ricoh XR-1s, 55mm SMC Pentax lense
Asahi Pentax KX, Astron 28-70mm lense
Rolleiflex 3.5C
Zeiss Ikonta
Linhoff large-format camera

Digitaltruth
Site Admin
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:24 pm
Contact:

Postby Digitaltruth » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:57 am

Kodak used to publish a time of 4.25 minutes for Panatomic-X in DK-50 stock solution, although this time was only recommended for sheet film. If you are shooting roll film it should still provide a useful starting point.

Its unlikely there was ever a published time for Panatomic-X in Universal, so for this one you will need to run a clip test.
--Jon Mided

Digitaltruth Photo
http://www.digitaltruth.com

PeanutHorst
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:48 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Postby PeanutHorst » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:47 am

Awww crud.

Well thankfully I keep some DK-50 in both stock form and 1:1 form around :)

Although I never really cared for the idea of Sodium Metaborate, or as they delightfully called it, Kodalk.

Next thing I want to know : Any stores in Sydney, that will sell me Efke 25 or Panatomic-X or Agfapan 25 or even Plus-X Pan or FP4+, but in 120 format?

Panchromatic film isn't as popular around here as it once was :( :cry: and as previously stated, parents have a thing about the idea of using the internet to purchase good. :( :(

Oh well, if anyone can think of something (An Aussie version of J+C perhaps?) I'd be most interested to hear of it.
My cameras:

Ricoh XR-1s, 55mm SMC Pentax lense
Asahi Pentax KX, Astron 28-70mm lense
Rolleiflex 3.5C
Zeiss Ikonta
Linhoff large-format camera

foolscape
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:01 am
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Back to the original subject

Postby foolscape » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:22 am

The inferiority of a film is in the eyes of the beholder. It depends on what you're looking for. Modern films from Kodak, Ilford, and Fuji are very good. The trouble with them is that their emulsions don't allow for much experimentation. Part of the joy of photography for me is trying new things in the darkroom. Older, thick emulsion films, Like Efke, respond to pyro and other compensating developers much more readily than "Modern" films. Yes, when I want sharpness and contrast, I shoot the Big Three companies' films. But when I'm trying to emulate soft-focus glamour photography from the 1920's, I want Efke. When I want to give my cityscapes a "period" look, I shoot Foma. I haven't tried Forte yet, but it's only a matter of time. I love their papers. I've shot miles of FP4+, and I still consider it my favorite film, now that Konica 750IR is deceased, but I'm a dabbler. Every film has a purpose. Viva variety!

--Gary

Fotohuis
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:25 pm
Location: the Netherlands
Contact:

Postby Fotohuis » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:33 am

When I want to give my cityscapes a "period" look, I shoot Foma
Great, time for some examples:

http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/thumbnails.php?album=5

Fomapan T200 is one of my favorite films for these kind of things. For me price is not an issue. If I need a certain film I will use it, independend what the costs will be but of course it's clear when you shoot on Foma it's about 30% cheaper than e.g. Fuji or Rollei, especially in Europe.

Whatever you're shooting: I whish everybody a Merry Christmas and a great 2007!

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/

Fotohuis
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:25 pm
Location: the Netherlands
Contact:

Postby Fotohuis » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:54 am

.... and about the OrWo (=ORginal WOlfen) films:

Filmotec (indeed in Wolfen, Germany) are producing them again on former OrWo slow speed receiptures and new production methods for Rollei/Maco. Rollei PAN25 and Rollei Ortho 25 and the 3-layer Rollei R3 (in fact an overlay of iso 25-150 and 500 emulsions) are available worldwide on 35mm, 120 roll film and some of those films also in 4x5" and 8x10" sheet film. On newer modern and smaller production machines.
Here the Rollei dev. table. The empty column is planned for Rodinal very soon :)
http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie ... 0films.pdf

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/

Ornello
Posts: 832
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:49 am

Postby Ornello » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:05 am

Fotohuis wrote:.... and about the OrWo (=ORginal WOlfen) films:

Filmotec (indeed in Wolfen, Germany) are producing them again on former OrWo slow speed receiptures and new production methods for Rollei/Maco. Rollei PAN25 and Rollei Ortho 25 and the 3-layer Rollei R3 (in fact an overlay of iso 25-150 and 500 emulsions) are available worldwide on 35mm, 120 roll film and some of those films also in 4x5" and 8x10" sheet film. On newer modern and smaller production machines.
Here the Rollei dev. table. The empty column is planned for Rodinal very soon :)
http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie ... 0films.pdf

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
The best B&W films are made by Ilford, Fuji, and Kodak. Agfa and other firms produced generally inferior products.

Fotohuis
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:25 pm
Location: the Netherlands
Contact:

Postby Fotohuis » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:36 am

The best B&W films are made by Ilford, Fuji, and Kodak. Agfa and other firms produced generally inferior products.
Your words, not mine :shock:
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/

Ornello
Posts: 832
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:49 am

Postby Ornello » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:21 pm

Fotohuis wrote:
The best B&W films are made by Ilford, Fuji, and Kodak. Agfa and other firms produced generally inferior products.
Your words, not mine :shock:
It is not difficult to make adequate slow films. The manufacture of high-speed materials separates the men from the boys.

Fotohuis
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:25 pm
Location: the Netherlands
Contact:

Postby Fotohuis » Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:04 pm

If you mean: The amount of money for reseach and the technology to produce high speed films, yes I can agree.
But that does not mean that the other companies have inferior and crappy products :)
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests