Old formulae

[pirateoversixty]

Every couple of years or so, I go the Public Library and get Aaron Sussman's "the amateur photographer's handbook." Though it is quite dated, I never fail to find a bit of information in there that I can use.
Anyway, he has listed a number of DIY film developers, (including Pentaxpete's FX-18), along with a number of formulas that have also not been mentioned in posts. Among these are:
a Windisch metol sulphite formula, Windisch 665, a phenidone fine grain developer by Kendall and Axford of Ilford from the 1940's, superfine grain W 80 by M.U. Wallach, which is supposed to be good for night photography, MCM 100, Champlin 15 and Champlin 16.

Granted, these are ancient bytodays standards, but does anyone, or has anyone, used these, and how do/did they work?
Pentaxpete could give us a clue how the FX-18 worked.
Jim

[Keith Tapscott.]

Every couple of years or so, I go the Public Library and get Aaron Sussman's "the amateur photographer's handbook." Though it is quite dated, I never fail to find a bit of information in there that I can use.
Anyway, he has listed a number of DIY film developers, (including Pentaxpete's FX-18), along with a number of formulas that have also not been mentioned in posts. Among these are:
a Windisch metol sulphite formula, Windisch 665, a phenidone fine grain developer by Kendall and Axford of Ilford from the 1940's, superfine grain W 80 by M.U. Wallach, which is supposed to be good for night photography, MCM 100, Champlin 15 and Champlin 16.

Granted, these are ancient bytodays standards, but does anyone, or has anyone, used these, and how do/did they work?
Pentaxpete could give us a clue how the FX-18 worked.
Jim

The Windisch Metol-Sulphite compensating developer is quite close to Kodak D-23 diluted 1+3 and the Phenidone fine-Grain developer is probably an early formula which led to the introduction of Ilford Microphen. The other developers are the so called `Super-finegrain`type, unfortunately, the extra fine grain is at the expense of emulsion speed yield and they are likely to cause dichroic fog with the modern day emulsions. I would suggest using either Ilford Perceptol or Kodak Microdol-X which are both very similar to each other and are closely related to the Windisch Metol-Sulphite and D-23 developers.
Microphen is still available and there is also DD-X which is similar, but sold as a liquid concentrate.

[PeanutHorst]

I envy you your books.

[pirateoversixty]

We are fortunate to have a fairly good library, with a farily sizeable section on photography. Of course, as in B&N, Borders, and so forth, d-----l is starting to get a good foothold on the shelves. But, there is a new addition on analogue every now and then, more often on photographers than processing,etc.
Jim

[pentaxpete]

Sorry, just found this thread: Well, I too have seen these 'Old Formulae' and was very interested in the MCM100 BUT the 'Meritol' is no longer available any where to buy but one could make it if you had access to a laboratory as you needed 'molecular amounts 'of metol and PPD I remember to make an 'addition' product. Regarding the FX18 formula: I tried it several times but it increased in activity badly and I got over-development, then I tried diluting it 1+3 and got some good negs on Ilford Delta 400 and other films. I just wondered why it seemed to have vanished from all the literature on the web on sites such as this where keen make-it-up-yourself enthusiasts keep going.

[pirateoversixty]

Already too book back to library, but will be going back soon. Will see if I can find the substitute for meritol. Will post if I find it.
Jim

[JC]

Meritol was a combination of pyrocatechin and paraphenylenediamine made by Johnson & Sons LTD in 1936. Thats all I know, no mention of the the exact make up in my books.

[JC]

You ask the question on how these developers worked.

One important way to understand developers is to identify their cheif components:

Developing Agent
Preservative
Accelerator
Restrainer

Sometimes buffers and other chemicals are added, but these are the main components of developers.

Identify these main components, what levels each are present in the developer and understanding the chief developing agent will get you
a long way to an initial understanding.

[Jim Appleyard]

Meritol was a combo of PPD and catechol. Scouring other formus I found that 7g of PPD and 9g of catechol was equal to the 16g of Meritol.

Thus: MCM 100

Sod. sulfite 88g

PPD 7g

Catechol 9g

Borax 2.3g

TSP 6.9g (Fromulary's version uses on 3g)

Pot Bro. 0.2g (Formulary use 1g)

Formulary adds 15g of citric acid

This makes 1 liter of dev.

[Ornello]

Every couple of years or so, I go the Public Library and get Aaron Sussman's "the amateur photographer's handbook." Though it is quite dated, I never fail to find a bit of information in there that I can use.
Anyway, he has listed a number of DIY film developers, (including Pentaxpete's FX-18), along with a number of formulas that have also not been mentioned in posts. Among these are:
a Windisch metol sulphite formula, Windisch 665, a phenidone fine grain developer by Kendall and Axford of Ilford from the 1940's, superfine grain W 80 by M.U. Wallach, which is supposed to be good for night photography, MCM 100, Champlin 15 and Champlin 16.

Granted, these are ancient bytodays standards, but does anyone, or has anyone, used these, and how do/did they work?
Pentaxpete could give us a clue how the FX-18 worked.
Jim

Most old formulas have been superseded by much better ones. Geoffrey Crawley's FX-37 is probably the best all-around formula published in the last 20 years.

This developer is intended for use with T-Max and Delta films, although it will produce excellent results with traditional emulsions. FX-37 is designed to produce very sharp, tonally rich negatives with an EFS speed increase. It is not a fine grain developer and is not recommended for fast traditional films.

Increase the EFS by one-half to two-thirds of a stop.

Distilled water (50°C) ................. 750 ml
Sodium sulfite (anhy) .................. 60.0 g
Hydroquinone ........................... 5.0 g
Sodium carbonate (anhy) ................ 5.0 g
Phenidone .............................. 0.5 g
Borax .................................. 2.5 g
Potassium bromide ...................... 0.5 g
Benzotriazole, 1% ...................... 5.0 ml
Distilled water to make ................ 1.0 l

All times are for the 1+3 dilution at 20 C. For increase speed dilute 1+5.


—————————————— EI — Min —————
Fuji Neopan 400 500 6
Neopan 1600 1600 5
—————————————————————
Ilford Delta 100 160 8¼
Delta 400 500 7½
Pan-F Plus 64 4
FP4 Plus 160 4½
HP5 Plus 640 6½
—————————————————————
Kodak Plux-X 200 5½
T-Max 100 Pro 125 8
T-Max 400 Pro 500 9
T-Max 400 Pro 400 8
T-Max 3200 1600 8
Tri-X 500 6


Crawley stated that FX-37 is the closest published formula to FX-39

The benzotriazole can be eliminated if the bromide is increase to 1 g/l.

[Greg Winterflood]

One important way to understand developers is to identify their cheif components:
Developing Agent
Preservative
Accelerator
Restrainer
Sometimes buffers and other chemicals are added, but these are the main components of developers.

Interesting stuff! As a kid I used Silver Nitrate on my own skin as a form of temporary tattoo. Whose knows what that did to my internal milieu?

That aside, I wonder if you are able to point me in the direction of web based articles where I can read more on the atomic chemistry of the developing process, and the adjunctive processes, which are let loose on the latent image in the emulsion, once a developer is poured in?

I feel a better understanding of this will help me to time, agitate, stop, and fix the development of my negatives in an informed manner.

I know is comes back to the Feng Shui of the day - but I'd like to know what is known

[Ornello]

One important way to understand developers is to identify their cheif components:
Developing Agent
Preservative
Accelerator
Restrainer
Sometimes buffers and other chemicals are added, but these are the main components of developers.

Interesting stuff! As a kid I used Silver Nitrate on my own skin as a form of temporary tattoo. Whose knows what that did to my internal milieu?

That aside, I wonder if you are able to point me in the direction of web based articles where I can read more on the atomic chemistry of the developing process, and the adjunctive processes, which are let loose on the latent image in the emulsion, once a developer is poured in?

I feel a better understanding of this will help me to time, agitate, stop, and fix the development of my negatives in an informed manner.

I know is comes back to the Feng Shui of the day - but I'd like to know what is known

From Dry Plates to Ektachrome Film by C E Kenneth Mees is a good source, as well as The Science of Photography by by Baines, revised by Bomback.

[Greg Winterflood]

Thanks Ornello. I'll see what the local Library has on its shelves.

[pirateoversixty]

Ornello:
If modern formulae are much better, why do so many darkroom workers still promote Rodinal (and its various incarnations)? As I have stated, Rodinal is not my favorite, but it has been suggested for Pan F+ and slow films of that genre
Jim

[Ornello]

Ornello:
If modern formulae are much better, why do so many darkroom workers still promote Rodinal (and its various incarnations)? As I have stated, Rodinal is not my favorite, but it has been suggested for Pan F+ and slow films of that genre
Jim

Rodinal is nothing special. It does not give very good emulsion speed and does not give good sharpness. Some people are simply attached to it for sentimental reasons, and perhaps because of its long shelf life. Many developers are superior to it. Paterson FX-39 is the current champion high-definition developer. It is far, far superior to Rodinal.