sodium carbonate

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pirateoversixty
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sodium carbonate

Post by pirateoversixty »

mixing up some neofin blue. solution b calls for sodium carbonate anhydrous. what i have on hand is sodium carbonate monohydrated. is this ok to use or should i adjust formula, or forget it?
TIA
Jim

Digitaltruth
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Post by Digitaltruth »

1lb of Sodium Carbonate Monohydrate = 0.855 lbs of Sodium Carbonate Anhydrous.

If you convert the quantity based on this figure, the formula should work identically.
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twellendorf
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Post by twellendorf »

This site has usefull info for chemical substitutions.

http://www.jackspcs.com/chemconv.htm

pirateoversixty
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sodium carbonate

Post by pirateoversixty »

Oddly enough, thats where I found this formula. Didn't even think to look there. Thanks again for the responses. Barring any disastrous outcome, may post how this stuff works with T-Max 100 in medium format.

Also, my metol was a medium gray color. What, if any significance. Have absolutely no idea how old my chemicals are; they were given to me by a friend who had them given to him.

Jim

twellendorf
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Post by twellendorf »

I am using metol (Elon) and hydroquinone I bought from a camera store that went out of business. They were partial jars and were Kodak brown glass with black metal lids. I know Kodak sold these chemicals in plastic starting in the late 70's. Before that they used brown glass jars with yellow metal lids. I don't know how old the stuff is but it is certainly from the 60's, I would guess the 50's.

The chemical is a purplish gray, but they still work fine. I use DK-50 for most of my work, usually mixed 1:3. I have not had any problems with these agents.

pirateoversixty
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Post by pirateoversixty »

I picked up a boat-load of old chemicals, some I listed in a previous post. All the Kodak stuff is brown glass.
Anyway, I processed my first roll of 35mm Neopan 400 this morning. 12' with agitation every minute and a half. Film was exposed @ei 200. I must say I was stunned at the results. Accutance was excellent, shadow detail was very good. Only printed to 5x7 on Agfa RC. This was only a test roll of 12 from bulk, so subject matter was quite underwhelming. I plan to do some more selective shooting, and also try it with mf.
JIM

Keith Tapscott.
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Re: sodium carbonate

Post by Keith Tapscott. »

pirateoversixty wrote:mixing up some neofin blue. solution b calls for sodium carbonate anhydrous. what i have on hand is sodium carbonate monohydrated. is this ok to use or should i adjust formula, or forget it?
TIA
Jim
Neofin Blue is a proprietory formula which as far as I know, has never been published. This is made by Tetenal Ltd in Germany. There was also Neofin Red for higher speed films in the ISO 400 group.
Did you mean Willi Beutler`s High Definition developer? :?:
Last edited by Keith Tapscott. on Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Keith Tapscott.
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Post by Keith Tapscott. »

Willi Beutler`s High Definition Developer:

Part `A`
Sodium Hexametaphosphate = 2 Grams
Metol developing agent = 10 Grams
Sodium Sulphite, anhydrous = 50 Grams
Water to make 1 litre of stock solution.

Part `B`
Sodium Hexametaphosphate = 2 Grams
Sodium Carbonate, anhydrous = 50 Grams
Water to make 1 litre of stock solution.

Make the working strength developer with 1 part of `A` + 1 part of `B` + 8 parts of water, this solution is used once only and then discarded.
Try for 9 minutes at 20C (68F) as a starting point.

As a guide if using the monohydrate of Sodium Carbonate, multiply the weight given for the anhydrous Carbonate by (1.2) .

Keith Tapscott.
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Material Safety Data Sheet.

Post by Keith Tapscott. »

The material safety data sheet from the main Tetenal website shows that Neofin Blue is an M.Q. developer.

http://www.tetenal.com/sidaopener_uk.ht ... 100126.pdf

pirateoversixty
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sodium carbonate

Post by pirateoversixty »

The formula I used is from www.jacspc.com. It calls for 10 grams of metol and 50 grams sodium sulfite in 1 liter of water for sulution A, and 50 grams of sodium carbonate (anhydrous) in 1 liter of water for solution B. Dilute 1:1:8. I developed a roll of Neopan 400 @ei 200 for 12', agitation 10" every 1 1/2'. Very impressive results. Tonality was good, grain was sharp, and accutance was excellent. Check jacspc website. This is listed as Beutler High Accutance Film Developer (Neofin Blue Formula). I googled this on photo.net and it appears there are m ore than a few variations of Beutler/Neofin. Whatever, this one worked for me and I will work it for awhile.
Jim

twellendorf
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Post by twellendorf »

The Sodium Hexametaphosphate is a sequestering agent. It is only needed to keep calcium and magnesium salts from forming a scum if you have "hard" water. If you use bottled water you can omit it. If you want to be sure you can use distilled or reverse osmosis filtered water.

The Beutler is a nice developer. I have also used it with phenidone in place of the metol. The ratio is metol quantity / 10 = phenidone quantity. I have also seen it with a small amount of Amidol added. The Amidol really brightens-up the highlights.
Last edited by twellendorf on Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pirateoversixty
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sodium carbonate

Post by pirateoversixty »

The amidol additive sounds interesting. How much would you suggest per 16 oz of working solution?
Jim

twellendorf
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Post by twellendorf »

As I recall I added about 1 gm of Amidol per liter. The amidol gives sort of an olive black tone to the silver. I also used it for paper development with good results.

bowzart
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Post by bowzart »

Keith Tapscott. wrote:Willi Beutler`s High Definition Developer:

Part `A`
Sodium Hexametaphosphate = 2 Grams
Metol developing agent = 10 Grams
Sodium Sulphite, anhydrous = 50 Grams
Water to make 1 litre of stock solution.

Part `B`
Sodium Hexametaphosphate = 2 Grams
Sodium Carbonate, anhydrous = 50 Grams
Water to make 1 litre of stock solution.

Make the working strength developer with 1 part of `A` + 1 part of `B` + 8 parts of water, this solution is used once only and then discarded.
Try for 9 minutes at 20C (68F) as a starting point.

As a guide if using the monohydrate of Sodium Carbonate, multiply the weight given for the anhydrous Carbonate by (1.2) .
I wonder about posting to these old threads. Anybody there?

I've seen this formula and another one which does not mention the Sodium Hexametaphosphate, which we also know as "calgon" and which is used as a water softening agent. I've been using the one without the "hex" for a long time with excellent success. Perhaps that is because where I live, the water has very little mineral content (it rains a lot around here, the Pacific Northwest of the US). Does anyone have information about why there are two versions?

Another question about Beutler's. Aaron Sussman in the _Amateur Photographer's Handbook_ presents the "hexless" version. He also cautions emphatically against using it at any temperature above 65ºF. I've used it at that cooler temperature (which is often inconvenient), but a friend of mine who has used the formula almost daily since the mid 1940's for many thousands of rolls of film as a magazine photographer, says he never heard of that advice about temperature. He has always has used it at 68°F (20°C), and his results are first rate.

Any thoughts? Willi, where are you when I need you?

Larry

bowzart
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Post by bowzart »

I've seen this formula and another one which does not mention the Sodium Hexametaphosphate, which we also know as "calgon" and which is used as a water softening agent. I've been using the one without the "hex" for a long time with excellent success. Perhaps that is because where I live, the water has very little mineral content (it rains a lot around here, the Pacific Northwest of the US). Does anyone have information about why there are two versions?

Larry[/quote]

I see that this question has been answered above.

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