zone processing

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Benet Pols
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zone processing

Post by Benet Pols »

I need a suggestion for a 120 roll film with fairly long development times in HC-110. I am trying to do some zone system processing in the N-2 area and find much of the roll film has such short development times that it is very difficult to reduce.

My current favorite, Fortepan 400, had a nice long nine minute normal development time giving me plenty of room to reduce development. I understand Forte is now out of the business.

Thanks

foolscape
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Post by foolscape »

I have used Foma 100 repackaged as Arista.edu 100 which goes for 10 minutes.

Another possibility is using the "unofficial" H dilution, which is half of the B dilution, and double the time. In other words: Ilford FP4, which (if memory serves me correctly) has a development time of 6 minutes in B can be developed for 12 minutes in H.

--Gary

Benet Pols
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Post by Benet Pols »

Thanks a lot. That answer just seems glaringly obvious to me now. I'll file that in the "there are no stupid questions" department.

Benet

Ornello
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Re: zone processing

Post by Ornello »

Benet Pols wrote:I need a suggestion for a 120 roll film with fairly long development times in HC-110. I am trying to do some zone system processing in the N-2 area and find much of the roll film has such short development times that it is very difficult to reduce.

My current favorite, Fortepan 400, had a nice long nine minute normal development time giving me plenty of room to reduce development. I understand Forte is now out of the business.

Thanks
Don't do it at all. You'll end up with a crappy print no matter what you do to the negative in development. You should never vary negative development to suit scene contrast. The zs is wrong and unscientific.

Pim
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Post by Pim »

We were waiting for you Ornello, you never let us down.
Don't let your soul get digitalized, it just won't work!!

Ornello
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Post by Ornello »

Pim wrote:We were waiting for you Ornello, you never let us down.
Of course not!

bowzart
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Re: zone processing

Post by bowzart »

Benet Pols wrote:I need a suggestion for a 120 roll film with fairly long development times in HC-110. I am trying to do some zone system processing in the N-2 area and find much of the roll film has such short development times that it is very difficult to reduce.

My current favorite, Fortepan 400, had a nice long nine minute normal development time giving me plenty of room to reduce development. I understand Forte is now out of the business.

Thanks
You might consider using dilution H. It is not one of Kodak's published dilutions, but it is fairly widely used. Dilution B is mixed 1:31. Dilution H is made by diluting dilution B 1:1 with water. A good place to start for the developing time is just simply twice the time for dilution B. I haven't done quantitative testing yet, but it seems to work.

I'm dealing with students, so with short times uneven development happens a lot. We went to dilution H for anything that has a 5 minute time or less in dilution B.

HC 110 is a great developer for this sort of thing; you can choose from a wide variety of dilutions, or you could even come up with one of your own if you needed to. I know someone who worked out a system for expansion/contraction using a single time, varying the +&- with the dilution alone.

You may find N-2 disappointing. While you can reduce the overall contrast to fit the paper, the local contrast between adjacent values can get pretty uninteresting.[/i]

Ornello
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Re: zone processing

Post by Ornello »

bowzart wrote:
Benet Pols wrote:I need a suggestion for a 120 roll film with fairly long development times in HC-110. I am trying to do some zone system processing in the N-2 area and find much of the roll film has such short development times that it is very difficult to reduce.

My current favorite, Fortepan 400, had a nice long nine minute normal development time giving me plenty of room to reduce development. I understand Forte is now out of the business.

Thanks
You might consider using dilution H. It is not one of Kodak's published dilutions, but it is fairly widely used. Dilution B is mixed 1:31. Dilution H is made by diluting dilution B 1:1 with water. A good place to start for the developing time is just simply twice the time for dilution B. I haven't done quantitative testing yet, but it seems to work.

I'm dealing with students, so with short times uneven development happens a lot. We went to dilution H for anything that has a 5 minute time or less in dilution B.

HC 110 is a great developer for this sort of thing; you can choose from a wide variety of dilutions, or you could even come up with one of your own if you needed to. I know someone who worked out a system for expansion/contraction using a single time, varying the +&- with the dilution alone.

You may find N-2 disappointing. While you can reduce the overall contrast to fit the paper, the local contrast between adjacent values can get pretty uninteresting.[/i]
Precisely the reason the zone system does not work.

Pim
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Post by Pim »

Zone system rules!!!
Don't let your soul get digitalized, it just won't work!!

Ornello
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Post by Ornello »

Pim wrote:Zone system rules!!!
The ZS is fundamentally flawed, is not technically sound at all. Waste of time.

Jim Appleyard
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Post by Jim Appleyard »

[quote="Ornello"][quote="Pim"]Zone system rules!!![/quote]

The ZS is fundamentally flawed, is not technically sound at all. Waste of time.[/quote]

It works for countless other photographers. Can you explain why it doesn't work instead of saying so?

Pim
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Post by Pim »

Here we go again!!
Don't let your soul get digitalized, it just won't work!!

Ornello
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Post by Ornello »

Jim Appleyard wrote:
Ornello wrote:
Pim wrote:Zone system rules!!!
The ZS is fundamentally flawed, is not technically sound at all. Waste of time.
It works for countless other photographers. Can you explain why it doesn't work instead of saying so?
Contrast should approximate normal or else the photographs don't look right. It's elementary. Extreme compression or expansion of tonal range looks fake, and I can always tell. I hardly ever manipulate the contrast except within a very narrow range, and always only with paper contrast, NEVER with negative development.

What the original poster asked about ('N-2') is hopeless. It will not produce a good negative.

Digitaltruth
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Post by Digitaltruth »

These points of view are not necessarily unreconcilable.

While from a technical perspective there is only one "correct" negative, the zone system offers the ability to exercise control of a negative through a combination of understanding the contrast of a scene and manipulating exposure and development to compensate for limitations of the material. For artistic reasons, producing a "correct" negative may not always be the intention. Equally, for scenes which have a greater or lesser contrast range than can be shown proportionately in the final print, the zone system can be used to manipulate the negative so that certain tones can be given preference, even if the resulting negative is not perfectly optimized.
Digitaltruth Photo
https://www.digitaltruth.com

Pim
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Post by Pim »

well spoken Jon
Don't let your soul get digitalized, it just won't work!!

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