My technique with KB14

Film Photography & Darkroom discussion

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pentaxpete
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:19 am
Location: BRENTWOOD,Essex,(UK)

My technique with KB14

Postby pentaxpete » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:56 pm

I thought I would share my technique with KB14 with you:I have used Beutler in the past,but did some copy work on some bulk Jessops KB14 marked 'made in Croatia'dated 1992. I was using a Pentax SV+50mm SMC Macro-Takumar lens, copy stand and two lights, 60watt energy-saving type in reflectors at 45 degrees to book page. I rated it at 50ASA and did a short length,trying Crawley's Acutol S formula I mixed up myself, diluted 1+3 for 10.5 minutes @ 68oF and they came out a little too contrasty so I cut the time to 10 minutes and got wonderful negs !
I think I will try it for outdoor subjects with that formula,maybe rated at 40ASA and dev time cut to 9.5 minutes,as outdoor subjects have a longer subject-brightness range than copy subjects.
Got COMPUTERISED and 'slightly Digitised Pentax K10D' but FILM STILL RULES !


Murray Kelly
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:51 am
Location: Brisbane Australia

Postby Murray Kelly » Wed May 06, 2009 10:24 am

How did it turn out?
I used that film years ago with Beutler, FX-1 and FX-2 and it really pleased me.
Presently have a 100' roll in the refridgerator untouched. I was planning to use HC-110 at 1:100 or Rodinal so I am interested to hear how you found it w the Acutol-S.
Continuous contrast is a way bit different to B&W of a book! :-)
Murray

Fotohuis
Posts: 140
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Location: the Netherlands
Contact:

Postby Fotohuis » Wed May 06, 2009 11:26 am

Efke (25) films are doing well in:

Rodinal 1+100
Beutler type (metol) developer (Neofin Blau/Blue, Tetenal)
FX-1 high acutance developer
AM50 (Pyrocatechine non-staining), Amaloco

The original Beutler type developer is quite simple to make:

A: Water 1000ml
Metol 10g
Sodiumsulfite 50g
B: Water 1000ml
Sodiumcarbonate (without water) 50g

50ml A + 50ml B fill up till 500ml (one shot development).
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/

Ornello
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:49 am

Re: My technique with KB14

Postby Ornello » Wed May 06, 2009 1:04 pm

pentaxpete wrote:I thought I would share my technique with KB14 with you:I have used Beutler in the past,but did some copy work on some bulk Jessops KB14 marked 'made in Croatia'dated 1992. I was using a Pentax SV+50mm SMC Macro-Takumar lens, copy stand and two lights, 60watt energy-saving type in reflectors at 45 degrees to book page. I rated it at 50ASA and did a short length,trying Crawley's Acutol S formula I mixed up myself, diluted 1+3 for 10.5 minutes @ 68oF and they came out a little too contrasty so I cut the time to 10 minutes and got wonderful negs !
I think I will try it for outdoor subjects with that formula,maybe rated at 40ASA and dev time cut to 9.5 minutes,as outdoor subjects have a longer subject-brightness range than copy subjects.
I suggest Fuji Acros in something like D-76 1:1. It can hardly be beat!

pentaxpete
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:19 am
Location: BRENTWOOD,Essex,(UK)

Postby pentaxpete » Thu May 07, 2009 4:11 am

Ornello : Yes, thanks for viewing BUT I had a 30 meter tin in fridge to use up -- I also have 26 cassettes left of Acros 100 I got from PhotoMart which are fresher so thought I would use up the KB14 first..... my outdoor results were very good,using the diluted Acutol S formula I mixed myself and the copy prints I did for my daughter's school project were very good too. I used R14 in Germany when I was in the British Army there in 1956 in my Ensign Selfix 16/20 model II with 75mm f3.5 Ross Xpres lens and mixed up the Beutler Formula from Army chemical supply, ( as I was in the Pathology Lab I could get all the chemicals and the British Taxpayer was paying for the Army!) I remember I did some snow scenes around the British Military Hospital ground in Iserlohn on the R14/Beutler combination.
Got COMPUTERISED and 'slightly Digitised Pentax K10D' but FILM STILL RULES !

Murray Kelly
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:51 am
Location: Brisbane Australia

Postby Murray Kelly » Fri May 08, 2009 11:48 pm

I well remember that year. 2nd year uni with a Retina 1A. Still using the Kodak PlusX and ID-11 but was given a scales so set about homebrewing. The chems were quite expensive (there is a bottle PPD marked 1oz 3/- right in front of me) but at the med. school I befriended enough people to get hospital //SPAM// stuff. Discovered Beutler and Adox KB14 and 17 and never looked back.
Found the coin to upgrade to a Contaflex and a duty free Minolta 16.
Adox R17 sliced and souped in Beutler was wonderful for the latter.
I'm not at all sure the present day Efke is exactly the same film - the base isn't crystal clear like it was then. I have a roll of Efke 25 (KB14) and another of 50 (17) here and I think you are right to use the 30m roll up.
The only improvement would be to switch to FX-1 or FX-2. I consider them to be 'Beutler' type developers anyway!

Thanks for the memories.
Murray
Brisbane

Ornello
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:49 am

Postby Ornello » Mon May 11, 2009 3:16 pm

Murray Kelly wrote:I well remember that year. 2nd year uni with a Retina 1A. Still using the Kodak PlusX and ID-11 but was given a scales so set about homebrewing. The chems were quite expensive (there is a bottle PPD marked 1oz 3/- right in front of me) but at the med. school I befriended enough people to get hospital //SPAM// stuff. Discovered Beutler and Adox KB14 and 17 and never looked back.
Found the coin to upgrade to a Contaflex and a duty free Minolta 16.
Adox R17 sliced and souped in Beutler was wonderful for the latter.
I'm not at all sure the present day Efke is exactly the same film - the base isn't crystal clear like it was then. I have a roll of Efke 25 (KB14) and another of 50 (17) here and I think you are right to use the 30m roll up.
The only improvement would be to switch to FX-1 or FX-2. I consider them to be 'Beutler' type developers anyway!

Thanks for the memories.
Murray
Brisbane
To the best of my knowledge the EFKE films are built from the same formulas as the old Adox films. Good though these were, the newer films are better (faster, easier to develop, and have wider latitude and more even color sensitization).

miha
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:42 am

Postby miha » Tue May 12, 2009 9:11 am

@Ornello

If you haven't noticed, people are talking about EFKE films and the techniques they are using to get them desired results. They are not trying to find a "better" film... :idea:

If my memory serves me right, you are using Leicaflex cameras (me too). Good though these were, the newer cameras are better (faster in operation, easier to handle, and have more sensitve meters).

Murray Kelly
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:51 am
Location: Brisbane Australia

Postby Murray Kelly » Thu May 14, 2009 10:21 am

Miha is correct insofaras I would be quite happy to get the same results I got all those years ago. My techniques need resharpening and I've lost the 'eye' for a picture. I'm hoping that to eliminate the variables I know and learn how to overcome the ones I don't, I will get back to producing pics I can show people without apologising for my inadequacies.
Using film I know is half the battle. Anyway - how else will I use up two 30m rolls of the stuff? :-)
Murray

Ornello
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:49 am

Postby Ornello » Fri May 22, 2009 9:40 am

Murray Kelly wrote:Miha is correct insofaras I would be quite happy to get the same results I got all those years ago. My techniques need resharpening and I've lost the 'eye' for a picture. I'm hoping that to eliminate the variables I know and learn how to overcome the ones I don't, I will get back to producing pics I can show people without apologising for my inadequacies.
Using film I know is half the battle. Anyway - how else will I use up two 30m rolls of the stuff? :-)
Murray
Unless there is some compelling reason to use that particular film, I would, speaking for myself, prefer another. I used KB14 40 years ago...but there are much better films available today...and after all it's the final images we are concerned about, rather than the materials, isn't it? Having used almost all of the B&W films out there in the last 40 years, I can say that Acros 100 Neopan is as good a film as I have ever used. It has better latitude, better color sensitization, and is easier to process. Hands down it beats KB14. So, why use KB14?

Murray Kelly
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:51 am
Location: Brisbane Australia

Postby Murray Kelly » Fri May 22, 2009 9:52 am

I'm sure you are correct. It just so happens I have, as I said, 2 x 30m rolls of the stuff.
I'm frugal. Why not use film I'm comfortable knowing that it can give results I like?
Seems to me the developers are the biggest change in the environment I have to adapt to. :-)j

Murray

Ornello
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:49 am

Postby Ornello » Fri May 22, 2009 10:36 am

Murray Kelly wrote:I'm sure you are correct. It just so happens I have, as I said, 2 x 30m rolls of the stuff.
I'm frugal. Why not use film I'm comfortable knowing that it can give results I like?
Seems to me the developers are the biggest change in the environment I have to adapt to. :-)j

Murray
Well KB14 is rather unforgiving, low-latitude material. I would try D-76 1:3 for 8 minutes to start.

Ornello
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:49 am

Postby Ornello » Fri May 22, 2009 10:38 am

Murray Kelly wrote:I'm sure you are correct. It just so happens I have, as I said, 2 x 30m rolls of the stuff.
I'm frugal. Why not use film I'm comfortable knowing that it can give results I like?
Seems to me the developers are the biggest change in the environment I have to adapt to. :-)j

Murray

Just because you have 200 feet of the stuff...is not a good reason to use it.

Murray Kelly
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:51 am
Location: Brisbane Australia

Postby Murray Kelly » Fri May 22, 2009 8:25 pm

Thanks for your thoughts - I haven't used D-76 or ID-11 since about 1957. It isn't the best choice for those films at all.
High dilution with little agitation and long times suit best.
I just haven't had much exposure (pun) to pyro of any flavour and v little to glycin. I tried that in FX-2 when it first was published. TEA and glycol solvents are new, too to me.
Bottom line - I'm plugging along happily rolling round in my own mess. :-)
Murray


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