Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Film Photography & Darkroom discussion

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kennethcooke
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Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby kennethcooke » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:22 pm

This looks a good combination on the data base but can I ask members with practical experience of this combination to comment. And could members also share personal ISO speeds given a box speed of 100
"It's called grain it's supposed to be there"

Regards Kenneth


Keith Tapscott.
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Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby Keith Tapscott. » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:41 am

As far as I know, Rollei-Retro is the same film as Agfa APX 100.
This should help you to get started. http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.ph ... mdc=Search

Keith Tapscott.
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Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby Keith Tapscott. » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:59 am

I remember reading that Fay Godwin used to use APX 100 film in 120 rolls. I think her developer of choice was Tetenal Ultrafin liquid diluted 1+20 for 12 minutes at 20*C (68*F).

kennethcooke
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Location: West Riding UK

Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby kennethcooke » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:25 pm

Keith Tapscott. wrote:As far as I know, Rollei-Retro is the same film as Agfa APX 100.
This should help you to get started. http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.ph ... mdc=Search
Keith have you any recommendations on personal ISO as opposed to box speed of 100 asa as should I adopt this film as stock film I would look for it as a replacement to Pan-F Plus maybe rating it at 64 asa?
"It's called grain it's supposed to be there"

Regards Kenneth

Keith Tapscott.
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Location: Plymouth, England.

Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby Keith Tapscott. » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:59 am

kennethcooke wrote:
Keith Tapscott. wrote:Keith have you any recommendations on personal ISO as opposed to box speed of 100 asa as should I adopt this film as stock film I would look for it as a replacement to Pan-F Plus maybe rating it at 64 asa?
Ken, start with the box speed and make some bracketed exposures to find which exposure works best for you. Keep a notebook and pen handy when you do this, as it will help you as a reference. You really must do this yourself, as what might work for someone else might not work for you. The same applies for development, again it should be what ever time, dilution etc gives you easy to enlarge negatives, There are no magic-bullets.

Pan F Plus is still available while APX 100 (Rollei-Retro) is almost out of stock, so I fail to see it as a worthwhile replacement. I`m not knocking the film you have chosen, I`m just saying that there will not be much of it left to buy soon. It might be worth trying something else that is popular like Delta 100, 100 Acros or T-Max 100 if you want very fine grain or FP4 Plus and Plus-X if you want a more traditional look.

kennethcooke
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Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby kennethcooke » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:02 am

Keith- I hear what you are saying regarding Rollei Retro 100 and yes I am very happy with Ilford Pan- f Plus which I have usually developed with Ilfosol S 4 mns but I was rather impressed with the price of Rollei Retro 100 at £28.00 foe 20 rolls. My main film usage is Kodak Tri-X 400 asa and Ilford Pan--F-Plus 50 asa. Adox is another interesting film as I quite like low speed films and they produce a 25 asa film which I have rated at 12 asa and cut development by 25%
"It's called grain it's supposed to be there"

Regards Kenneth

Ornello
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Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby Ornello » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:29 am

kennethcooke wrote:Keith- I hear what you are saying regarding Rollei Retro 100 and yes I am very happy with Ilford Pan- f Plus which I have usually developed with Ilfosol S 4 mns but I was rather impressed with the price of Rollei Retro 100 at £28.00 foe 20 rolls. My main film usage is Kodak Tri-X 400 asa and Ilford Pan--F-Plus 50 asa. Adox is another interesting film as I quite like low speed films and they produce a 25 asa film which I have rated at 12 asa and cut development by 25%
Based on extensive testing a couple years ago, Fuji Acros 100 is just about the best all-around slow film. Its speed is closer to 50/64 than to 100, but it is easier to develop than Pan-F Plus, has greater latitude, and better color sensitization (i.e. greens are lighter). Sharpness and graininess are basically indistinguishable.

I see no reason to use the Adox or Ilford materials given how good the Fuji film is, and it is about a stop faster than Pan-F to boot.

It is better than T-Max 100 or Delta 100 too.

kennethcooke
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Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby kennethcooke » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:02 am

Ornello wrote:
kennethcooke wrote:Keith- I hear what you are saying regarding Rollei Retro 100 and yes I am very happy with Ilford Pan- f Plus which I have usually developed with Ilfosol S 4 mns but I was rather impressed with the price of Rollei Retro 100 at £28.00 foe 20 rolls. My main film usage is Kodak Tri-X 400 asa and Ilford Pan--F-Plus 50 asa. Adox is another interesting film as I quite like low speed films and they produce a 25 asa film which I have rated at 12 asa and cut development by 25%
Based on extensive testing a couple years ago, Fuji Acros 100 is just about the best all-around slow film. Its speed is closer to 50/64 than to 100, but it is easier to develop than Pan-F Plus, has greater latitude, and better color sensitization (i.e. greens are lighter). Sharpness and graininess are basically indistinguishable.

I see no reason to use the Adox or Ilford materials given how good the Fuji film is, and it is about a stop faster than Pan-F to boot.

It is better than T-Max 100 or Delta 100 too.
Can I ask, on who's extensive testing you are referring to? You see speed is unimportant as I will use a tripod and I find Pan-F so easy to process. The main criteria, as I intimated was price and Rollei Retro 100 is coming out at about £1.30 for a 36 roll compare to over £3 for your Fuji recommendation. I must say, from my own experience I don't like Japanese colour reversal film I find it far too trippy
"It's called grain it's supposed to be there"

Regards Kenneth

Ornello
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Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby Ornello » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:09 pm

kennethcooke wrote:
Ornello wrote:
kennethcooke wrote:Keith- I hear what you are saying regarding Rollei Retro 100 and yes I am very happy with Ilford Pan- f Plus which I have usually developed with Ilfosol S 4 mns but I was rather impressed with the price of Rollei Retro 100 at £28.00 foe 20 rolls. My main film usage is Kodak Tri-X 400 asa and Ilford Pan--F-Plus 50 asa. Adox is another interesting film as I quite like low speed films and they produce a 25 asa film which I have rated at 12 asa and cut development by 25%
Based on extensive testing a couple years ago, Fuji Acros 100 is just about the best all-around slow film. Its speed is closer to 50/64 than to 100, but it is easier to develop than Pan-F Plus, has greater latitude, and better color sensitization (i.e. greens are lighter). Sharpness and graininess are basically indistinguishable.

I see no reason to use the Adox or Ilford materials given how good the Fuji film is, and it is about a stop faster than Pan-F to boot.

It is better than T-Max 100 or Delta 100 too.
Can I ask, on who's extensive testing you are referring to? You see speed is unimportant as I will use a tripod and I find Pan-F so easy to process. The main criteria, as I intimated was price and Rollei Retro 100 is coming out at about £1.30 for a 36 roll compare to over £3 for your Fuji recommendation. I must say, from my own experience I don't like Japanese colour reversal film I find it far too trippy
My testing. I tried all the major B&W films on the market. I used the Adox materials in the past so I knew what they are like already. I was curious about Acros and the other Fuji films. I ran tests on them to get them all to the same contrast so that speed and grain could be compared. My conclusions were that most of the 400 speed films were similar (I did not test the original T-Max 400 because I didn't like its curve; the new one may be better). Of them I preferred the Neopan to Tri-X, HP5 Plus, or Delta 400, based on tonality and color sensitization.

I tested Delta 100, Pan-F Plus, FP4, and Acros 100. Did not test Plus-X Pan.

FP4 Plus was grainier by a small margin, and I suppose Plus-X Pan would be similar. The Neopan Acros 100 was basically indistinguishable from Pan-F Plus as far as graininess and sharpness were concerned. It's about a stop faster. Processing is easier (longer times). Delta 100 was slightly grainier and slightly faster. From my experience I knew that T-Max 100 was similar so I didn't bother with it.

After the testing I was persuaded to use the Neopan films exclusively. Didn't see the point of using any of the others. The color sensitization is noticeably different. Most B&W films render greens too dark. The Neopans don't.

The list below is provided to help you compare the films. Graininess scale is my own invention. Grain 5 is all but invisible in a print at 8x. Grain 6 is just slightly observable. Grain 8-9 is still very fine but just observable at 8x. The 400 speed films show hardly any grain at 8x in my tests. Grain 11 is beginning to be more evident, and grain 12 is clearly visible in 8x enlargement.

Here's how I would rank the films:

Fuji Neopan Acros 100, Grain 5, Speed EI 50-64
Ilford Pan-F Plus, Grain 5, Speed EI 32-40
Not tested: Adox KB14, Grain 4, Speed EI 20 (Based on previous experience)

Ilford Delta 100 Grain 6, Speed EI 64-80
Not tested: Kodak T-Max 100, Grain 6, Speed EI 64-80 (Based on previous experience)
Ilford FP4 Plus, Grain 7, Speed EI 80-100
Not tested: Kodak Plus-X Pan, Grain 7, Speed EI 80-100 (Based on previous experience)

Fuji Neopan 400, Grain 8.9, Speed EI 250
Ilford Delta 400 Pro, Grain 8.9, Speed EI 250
Ilford HP5 Plus, Grain 9, Speed EI 250
Kodak Tri-X Pan, Grain 9, Speed EI 250
Not tested: Kodak T-Max 400 (Type 1) Grain 8, Speed 250 (Based on previous experience)

Ilford Delta 3200, Grain 12.5, Speed EI 1000
Kodak T-Max 3200, Grain 11, Speed 800
Fuji Neopan 1600, Grain 9.5, Speed EI 650

kennethcooke
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Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby kennethcooke » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:24 pm

My you have been busy. I tend to just make pictures but I guess whatever you fancy is OK
"It's called grain it's supposed to be there"

Regards Kenneth

Ornello
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Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby Ornello » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:32 pm

kennethcooke wrote:My you have been busy. I tend to just make pictures but I guess whatever you fancy is OK
Have not done anything for quite some time. Did these tests back about three or four years ago.

Most hilarious quote I ever heard from a photographer:

I have heard people brag about how they don't 'need' to use a Polycontrast filter "because my negatives are so good".

kennethcooke
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Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby kennethcooke » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:04 pm

Thank you- Just reading Barry Thornton "Elements" which puts photographers like you quote into perspective. I do think there is much to be gained by downrating manufacturers box speeds and development times although it can be a little difficult with Ilford Pan-F Plus 50 asa which they recommend a development time of 4 mins in Ilfosol-S. I am considering using a different developer to allow a longer time which will allow me adjustment down by about 25%. I don't know if you have explored this- Regards and thank you for your in put
"It's called grain it's supposed to be there"

Regards Kenneth

Ornello
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Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby Ornello » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:39 pm

kennethcooke wrote:Thank you- Just reading Barry Thornton "Elements" which puts photographers like you quote into perspective. I do think there is much to be gained by downrating manufacturers box speeds and development times although it can be a little difficult with Ilford Pan-F Plus 50 asa which they recommend a development time of 4 mins in Ilfosol-S. I am considering using a different developer to allow a longer time which will allow me adjustment down by about 25%. I don't know if you have explored this- Regards and thank you for your in put
One of the reasons I prefer Acros 100 to Pan-F is the slower development of the former. Pan-F is a traditional slow film with small crystals that develop with great rapidity. I can suggest you use some boric acid to slow down development (I use this regularly). A 1% solution is easy to make (10 grammes of boric acid in 1 liter of water). Try adding 5-10ml of this solution to each liter of working solution to extend time by 25%. You'll have to experiment.

kennethcooke
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Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby kennethcooke » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:46 pm

[quote="Ornello"][quote="kennethcooke"][quote="Ornello"][quote="kennethcooke"]Keith- I hear what you are saying regarding Rollei Retro 100 and yes I am very happ
Here's how I would rank the films:

Fuji Neopan Acros 100, Grain 5, Speed EI 50-64
Ilford Pan-F Plus, Grain 5, Speed EI 32-40
Not tested: Adox KB14, Grain 4, Speed EI 20 (Based on previous experience)

Ilford Delta 100 Grain 6, Speed EI 64-80
Not tested: Kodak T-Max 100, Grain 6, Speed EI 64-80 (Based on previous experience)
Ilford FP4 Plus, Grain 7, Speed EI 80-100
Not tested: Kodak Plus-X Pan, Grain 7, Speed EI 80-100 (Based on previous experience)

Fuji Neopan 400, Grain 8.9, Speed EI 250
Ilford Delta 400 Pro, Grain 8.9, Speed EI 250
Ilford HP5 Plus, Grain 9, Speed EI 250
Kodak Tri-X Pan, Grain 9, Speed EI 250
Not tested: Kodak T-Max 400 (Type 1) Grain 8, Speed 250 (Based on previous experience)

Ilford Delta 3200, Grain 12.5, Speed EI 1000
Kodak T-Max 3200, Grain 11, Speed 800
Fuji Neopan 1600, Grain 9.5, Speed EI 650

Given that I am using Kodak Tri-X400 and currently Ilford Pan-F Plus which I currently rate at box speeds of 400 asa and 50 asa respectively what would be your recommendations through your testing. Also I use Ilfosol-S 7.5 mins and 4 mins respectively. How would you recommend downrating development times? I also have in stock TMax developer and Rodinal. As yet they are unopened but I was proposing to use the TMax for my Tri-X processing and Rodinal for my Pan-F and Rollei REtro 100 asa if I decided to stock the later. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated as you are in good company with the late Barry Thornton whose views I particularly value

http://www.barrythornton.com/
"It's called grain it's supposed to be there"

Regards Kenneth

Ornello
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:49 am

Re: Rollei Retro 100+ Rodinal

Postby Ornello » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:17 pm

Given that I am using Kodak Tri-X400 and currently Ilford Pan-F Plus which I currently rate at box speeds of 400 asa and 50 asa respectively what would be your recommendations through your testing. Also I use Ilfosol-S 7.5 mins and 4 mins respectively. How would you recommend downrating development times? I also have in stock TMax developer and Rodinal. As yet they are unopened but I was proposing to use the TMax for my Tri-X processing and Rodinal for my Pan-F and Rollei REtro 100 asa if I decided to stock the later. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated as you are in good company with the late Barry Thornton whose views I particularly value

http://www.barrythornton.com/

Step 1: Obtain Ilford Galerie paper, grade 3
Step 2: Obtain condenser enlarger with high-class lens (prefer Leitz 50mm Focotar-2)
Step 3: Photograph a typical outdoor street scene on a clear day. The scene should contain something white as well as some grass and some shadows. A street scene with houses, lawns and trees will do just fine. Meter off the grass, not a grey card! Use a 36 exposure roll, and bracket using shutter speeds from 2 stops over to 2 stops under. Repeat several times on one roll.
Step 4: In darkroom, cut film in half; develop the two pieces separately in separate tanks.
Step 5. Develop the first 1/2-roll at -15% from the manufacturers. Develop the second 1/2-roll at -30%.
Step 6: Print the best exposures on the grade 3 paper. If a full range of tones is not present, adjust development time (not paper contrast) until full range of tones is present. From that point on, do not change development time for that film and developer combination.

The image below shows the kind of scene I mean.
Attachments
FP4 CU.JPG
Close-up crop
FP4 CU.JPG (139 KiB) Viewed 14642 times
FP4.JPG
FP4 test
FP4.JPG (144.24 KiB) Viewed 14643 times


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