"Full Development"?

Film Photography & Darkroom discussion

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pirateoversixty
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Peoria, Illinois

"Full Development"?

Postby pirateoversixty » Sun May 06, 2012 5:29 pm

First heard this term several years ago. It was in an article written about a newpaper photographer whose pix were being published in a magazine as a retrospective. He had passed several years earlier, and his story was written by his son. He indicated that his father would sometimes soak his prints (presumeably fiber-base) in the developer for up to five minutes, to really reach into the image, so to speak and get every last detail. I tried it several times at the time, but my patience then was much shorter then than it is now, and decided that the results did not justify the time spent.

Jump forward 20 years or so. Now in my dotage, I decided to try it again, up to four minutes. Developer is LPD, paper is Kentmere and Adox MCC, both fiber.
Throw in a sheet of Agfa fiber of unknown viintage. There is a difference, comparing prints. There just seems to be a little more depth in the prints. Nothing really popping out, but a subtle difference from prints developed 2-3 minutes on the same papers. Real or imagined, I think the improvement might be worth the effort on some negs.

Still in the darkroom mode, split-grade printing: how are you wet darkroom printers using this technique?
Jim


Ornello
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:49 am

Re: "Full Development"?

Postby Ornello » Sun May 06, 2012 9:14 pm

With ordinary fiber-based enlarging paper and most developers such as Dektol, development is complete in about three minutes, but there may be a trace more to get in another minute or two, depending on the developer and paper. Many RC papers have developer incorporated into the emulsion itself, so development occurs rapidly, in about 60-90 seconds. With fiber-based papers, it takes time for the developer to penetrate the paper's surface. Too long development can cause fog, so I would not usually go much beyond 5 minutes without adding some sort of restrainer..

Not sure what you mean by "split grade printing".
Last edited by Ornello on Mon May 07, 2012 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

sq1970
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:44 am

Re: "Full Development"?

Postby sq1970 » Sun May 06, 2012 9:47 pm

When Agfa made Brovira it was my paper of choice. I always developed it for at least 5 minutes and frequently 6 to 8 with very fine results. No recent experience with "modern" papers with times greater than 4 min. This is an interesting question and worth perhaps greater consideration. Thanks for the post.

pirateoversixty
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Peoria, Illinois

Re: "Full Development"?

Postby pirateoversixty » Mon May 07, 2012 9:04 am

Don't recall that I tried extended development with RC, only with FB. As Ornello said, RC develops pretty quickly, so I suspect that it may not benefit from this technique so much.
Split-grade printing: by my interpretation, and I am probably wrong, involves enlarging a print in two stages, using a soft grade filter filter for x-number of seconds, then reexposing with a harder filter for x-number of seconds. I have heard that burning-in is done this way, but I have never tried this. Just do the whole print. I go through episodes where I try things like this, but eventually decide its a PITA. Again, it requires a lot of work (and paper) to arrive at the proper times for each filter, but if you are trying for a perfect print, you will be rewarded.
JIM

Ornello
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:49 am

Re: "Full Development"?

Postby Ornello » Mon May 07, 2012 10:00 am

For Kodabromide paper a development time of 90 seconds was recommended. Double that is probably not unreasnable, but I doubt any longer would be of help. Other papers may differ.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professi ... /g8/g8.pdf

This has more info:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professi ... e103cp.pdf

pirateoversixty
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Peoria, Illinois

Re: "Full Development"?

Postby pirateoversixty » Sat May 19, 2012 11:31 am

sorta in the same vein, how do you test for minimum exposure for black when testing for exposure time?
Jim

Keith Tapscott.
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:58 am
Location: Plymouth, England.

Re: "Full Development"?

Postby Keith Tapscott. » Mon May 21, 2012 8:00 am

Tim Rudman's book The Photographers Master Printing Course shows a method for obtaining a maximum developing time of which after that, not only do any further improvements not occur, but which the deterioration of print quality does occur.
You can only develop your paper for so long before degradation of image quality starts to happen. The object of his test is to find the maximum developing time for optimum print quality.
Tim is one of the finest B&W printers I know of.

http://www.timrudman.com/

Ornello
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:49 am

Re: "Full Development"?

Postby Ornello » Mon May 21, 2012 10:48 am

Keith Tapscott. wrote:Tim Rudman's book The Photographers Master Printing Course shows a method for obtaining a maximum developing time of which after that, not only do any further improvements not occur, but which the deterioration of print quality does occur.
You can only develop your paper for so long before degradation of image quality starts to happen. The object of his test is to find the maximum developing time for optimum print quality.
Tim is one of the finest B&W printers I know of.

http://www.timrudman.com/
Yes, fog is the culprit. Organic and inorganic restrainers can be used to help reduce fog.

Oh joy. More landscape work. Cliches in abundance. Is there a cure for landscape photographers?

This is photography:

http://www.amazon.com/La-Strada-Vicki-G ... 800&sr=1-1

Keith Tapscott.
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:58 am
Location: Plymouth, England.

Re: "Full Development"?

Postby Keith Tapscott. » Mon May 21, 2012 3:44 pm

Ornello wrote:

Yes, fog is the culprit. Organic and inorganic restrainers can be used to help reduce fog.

Oh joy. More landscape work. Clichés in abundance. (Is there a cure for landscape photographers?)

This is photography:

http://www.amazon.com/La-Strada-Vicki-G ... 800&sr=1-1
I too get tired of seeing a seemingly endless tirade of landscapes, but it is the quality of Tim's prints that I wanted to emphasise.

I have seen some of his prints in an exhibition held locally to where I live and although his photographic subjects may not be my type of photography, I really do admire his darkroom craft.

His derelict building series are far more to my liking than his landscapes, although I am sure that others will prefer the latter.

http://www.timrudman.com/print-gallerie ... est-pier/1

BTW, I did find your link of interest.

Ornello
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:49 am

Re: "Full Development"?

Postby Ornello » Mon May 21, 2012 4:16 pm

Keith Tapscott. wrote:
Ornello wrote:

Yes, fog is the culprit. Organic and inorganic restrainers can be used to help reduce fog.

Oh joy. More landscape work. Clichés in abundance. (Is there a cure for landscape photographers?)

This is photography:

http://www.amazon.com/La-Strada-Vicki-G ... 800&sr=1-1
I too get tired of seeing a seemingly endless tirade of landscapes, but it is the quality of Tim's prints that I wanted to emphasise.

I have seen some of his prints in an exhibition held locally to where I live and although his photographic subjects may not be my type of photography, I really do admire his darkroom craft.

His derelict building series are far more to my liking than his landscapes, although I am sure that others will prefer the latter.

http://www.timrudman.com/print-gallerie ... est-pier/1

BTW, I did find your link of interest.
I do like to photograph old derelict places myself, but mine are different to some extent. Some of his are quite nice, but the contrast is about half a grade higher than I prefer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ornello/55 ... hotostream


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